Second Perek, Third Mishna
This woman has one pair of undesignated
birds. This woman has two pair. This woman has three pair.
This woman has four pair. This woman has five pair. This woman
has six pair. This woman has seven pair. One bird flew from the
group belonging to the first woman to that of the second. Then a
bird (not necessarily the same bird) flew from the second group
to the third woman's group. Then a bird flew from the third
group to the fourth woman's group, then a bird flew from the
fourth group to the fifth woman's group. Then a bird flew from
the fifth group to the sixth woman's group. Then a bird flew
from the sixth group to the seventh woman's group. Then one bird
flew back from each group to the next smaller group. Each bird
disqualifies one pair when it leaves a group to a larger group
and it also disqualifies one pair when it returns from a group to
a smaller group.
The first and second women have nothing that can be brought. The
third woman (whose group started with three pair) has one pair
that can be brought. The fourth woman has two pair. The fifth
woman has three pair. The sixth woman has four pair. The
seventh woman has six pair. Only one bird left the seventh group
(into the sixth). Therefore, unlike most of the groups, in which
two pair are disqualified, one pair is disqualified in the
seventh group. The seventh woman is then left with six pair to
Example of the Case of the Mishna
The First Porach V'chozar
Each of seven women had a different number of kinim. The first
woman had one kain (two birds), the second, two kinim, and so on.
First, one bird flew out of the first group to the second, then
one flew from the second to the third, and so on, until the
seventh. (None yet flew out of the seventh.) Then a bird flew
out of group seven to group six, then one flew from group six to
five, and so on to group one. (But a second bird did not fly out
of group one.)
It is possible that only one bird did all the travelling in each
direction. It is possible that each flight was done by a
different bird. It is possible that some of the flights were
done by one bird and some by other birds.
Each group has the same number of birds it started with.
One bird has flown out of groups one and seven, and two birds
left groups two through six. Although each group has the same
number of birds as it started with, one or two now in each group
might not have originated in that group. [Diagram 9]
Din of the First Group
No korbonos may be brought.
Either bird now in the first group might be an original
member of the group. It may not be brought as a Chatos for
perhaps its partner, which might now be in another group, will be
brought as a Chatos. It may not be brought as an Olah because
its partner might be brought as an Olah. [Diagram 14, meant to
be viewed later]
Din of the Second Group
None of the four birds is brought.
None of the birds may be brought as a Chatos because the
two birds that flew out might both be brought as Chato'os by
other women. None may be brought as Olos because the two that
flew out might be brought as Olos by other women. We want to
assure that no more than two of the original birds of the second
group will be Chato'os, nor will more than two be Olos.
In fact, one of the two birds that flew out of the
second group flew into the first group. Since none of the birds
now in the first group will be offered, we need not be concerned
that that bird will be a Chatos or an Olah. However, in order to
avoid confusion the Rabonon said that we should treat this bird
as if it flew among birds that would become korbonos. (Tosfos,
Maseches Yuma Daf 65:2, dibbur hamas'chil "umishoom gzaira
yomusu.") One possible understanding of this rule is that when
two birds fly out of one group, and one mingles with birds that
are offered and the other with birds that are not, we consider it
as if both flew among birds that are offered. [Diagram 15]
Din of the Third Group
One bird is brought as a Chatos, another
as an Olah. The remaining four birds are not brought.
We cannot bring two Chato'os because other women might
bring the two birds that flew out as Chato'os. No more than
three Chato'os may be brought from the original group of six
birds. We cannot bring two Olos because the two birds that flew
out might become Olos. No more than three Olos may be brought
from the original group.
In fact, the bird that flew to group two will not be
brought because none of the second group is brought. The Rabonon
treat this case as if both birds flew where there was a risk that
they would be brought, as we treated the second group. [Diagram 16]
Din of the Fourth, Fifth, and Sixth groups
We bring four birds
of the eight in the fourth group, six of the ten in the fifth
group, and eight of the twelve in the sixth group. Half of those
brought are Chato'os, and half are Olos.
The din follows the reasoning for the second and third
groups. Namely, two birds left each group. We reduce by two the
number of Chato'os to be brought from each group, in case both
birds that flew out are brought as Chato'os. We also reduce by
two the number of Olos from each group, in case both birds that
left are brought as Olos. That is, four fewer birds are brought
than the original number. This reduces the number of korbonos
from eight to four, from ten to six, and from twelve to eight in
the respective groups. [Diagrams 10, 11, and 12]
Din of the Seventh Group
We bring twelve of the fourteen birds,
six as Chato'os and six as Olos.
Only one bird left this group. Since the bird that flew
out might be brought as a Chatos, we reduce the number of
Chato'os brought from this group by one. Since it might be
brought as an Olah, we bring one Olah less. That is, six birds
are Chato'os, six are Olos, and two are not brought at all. [Diagram 13]
The dinim of the first through seventh groups are
applications of the principle stated following Mishna Bais, that
each bird flying out of a group reduces by two the number of
birds that can be brought from that group.
Then, starting with the third group, a
bird flew out of each group into the next larger group, and one
bird flew back from group seven through four into the next
smaller group. Each bird disqualifies one pair when it leaves a
group for a larger group, and disqualifies a pair when it returns
from a group to a smaller group. The third and fourth women have
nothing that can be brought. The fifth woman, who after the
first porach v'chozar had three pair, now has one pair. The
sixth woman has two. The seventh has five.
Example of Case of the Mishna
The Second Porach V'chozar
At the end of the first porach v'chozar all the birds in the
first and second groups are disqualified from being korbonos.
Therefore, birds will now move only among groups three through
seven, as the end of the Mishna clarifies. As this part begins,
the third woman can bring two birds (one kain of her original
three), the fourth woman can bring four birds (two kinim of
four), the fifth can bring six (three kinim of five), the sixth
can bring eight (four kinim of six), the seventh can bring twelve
(six kinim of seven).
Now one additional bird flew from the third group to the fourth
group,one flew from the fourth group to the fifth, and so on
until the seventh group. (No additional bird flew yet out of the
seventh.) Then a bird flew out of group seven to group six, then
one flew from group six to five, and so on until group three.
(No additional bird flew from the third group to the second.)
Each woman has the same number of birds she started
with. One bird has flown out of group three, in addition to the
two that left earlier, for a total loss of three. Groups four
through six each lost two birds in addition to the two lost
earlier, for a total of four lost. Group seven lost one earlier
and one now for a total loss of two. (As many birds joined each
group as the group lost.) [Diagram 17]
Din of the Third Group
No korbonos are brought.
The principle of Mishna Bais continues to be applied,
reducing by two the number of birds that can be brought for each
bird that left the group. The third group has lost three of its
six birds. They might all be brought as Chato'os by other women,
leaving no Chato'os to be brought by the owner of this group.
The three might all be brought as Olos, leaving no Olos to be
brought. [Diagram 18]
Din of the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth groups
No korbonos are
brought from group four, one Chatos and one Olah are brought from
group five, and two Chato'os and two Olos are brought from group
Each group has lost four of its birds. This reduces the
number of korbonos brought from each group by eight, two for each
bird that flew out, by the principle stated following Mishna
Bais. That is, if the four birds that flew out of each group are
all brought as Chato'os, then four fewer Chato'os should be
brought. If the four that left are brought as Olos, four fewer
Olos should be brought. This disqualifies all eight birds in
group four, eight of the ten birds in group five, and eight of
the twelve in group six.
In fact, some of the birds flew to groups that are now
completely disqualified. The Rabonon treat these cases as if all
the birds might be brought as part of other groups, as in the
comment on the din of the second group. [Diagrams 10, 20, and 21]
Din of the Seventh Group
Ten of the original fourteen are
brought, five as Chato'os and five as Olos.
Group seven has lost a total of two birds. (Groups four
through six each lost two birds to the next larger group and two
to the next smaller group. But group seven only lost two birds
to the next smaller group, group six. None flew into a larger
group as there is no larger group.) Since both birds might be
brought as Chato'os, we bring two fewer Chato'os, and since they
might both be Olos, we bring two fewer Olos. This disqualifies
four of the fourteen original birds, another application of the
principle stated following Mishna Bais. [Diagram 22]
A bird flew out of group five to group six
and from group six to group seven, and one bird flew back from
seven to six and six to five. It disqualifies one pair when it
leaves each group for a larger group, and it disqualifies one
pair when it returns. The fifth and sixth women have nothing to
be brought. The seventh woman has four pair. And some say that
the seventh woman does not lose anything as a result of the third
porach v'chozar and continues to be able to bring five pair.
Example of the Case of the Mishna
The Third Porach V'chozar
At the end of the second porach v'chozar all the birds in the
first through fourth groups are disqualified from being korbonos.
Therefore birds will now move only among groups five through
seven. As this part begins, the fifth woman can bring two birds
(one kain of the original five), the sixth woman can bring four
birds (two kinim of the original six), and the seventh woman can
bring ten birds (five kinim of the original seven).
Now one bird flew from group five to the sixth group and one flew
from six to seven. (None flew out of the seventh.) Then a bird
flew out of group seven to group six, and one flew out of group
six to group five. (None flew out of five.)
Each woman has the same number of birds that she started
with. However, as many as six birds that are now in a group
might not be originally from that group. [Diagram 23]
Din of the Fifth Group
None of the birds is brought.
A total of five birds have flown out. They might all be
brought as Chato'os, leaving no more Chato'os to bring. If they
were all brought as Olos no more Olos can be brought from this
group. [Diagram 24]
Din of the Sixth Group
None of the birds is brought.
A total of six birds have flown out. They might all be
brought as Chato'os, leaving no more Chato'os to be brought.
They might all be brought as Olos, leaving no more Olos to be
As in previous cases, some of the birds that left
groups five and six flew to groups from which no korbonos are
being brought. The Rabonon treat these birds as if they might
have been brought, as noted earlier. [Diagram 25]
Din of the Seventh Group (First opinion)
Four birds are brought as Chato'os and four as Olos.
A total of three birds have flown out of this group. In
truth, none of those birds will be brought as korbonos, because
all the birds in all the other groups have by now been
disqualified. However, the Rabonon have legislated (as discussed
above with respect to the din of the second group) that we treat
the remaining birds in the group as if those that flew out will
be brought as korbonos. If all three were brought as Chato'os,
group seven would have four more Chato'os to bring. If the three
were brought as Olos, group seven would have four more Olos to
bring. [Diagram 26]
Din of the Seventh Group (Second opinion)
Five birds are brought as Chato'os and five are brought as Olos (just
as was the din before this third porach v'chozar).
Of the total of three birds that left group seven, two
flew into group six when it was possible for the owner of group
six to bring them as korbonos. Therefore, the number of kinim
brought from group seven was reduced by two. That is, only five
Chato'os and five Olos could still be brought.
However, we are not concerned that the third bird that flies from
group seven will be brought as a Chatos or an Olah, since, by
now, all the birds in group six are disqualified (as explained
above). Therefore, the third bird to leave group seven does not
disqualify a third pair from group seven.
According to this opinion, the Rabonon did not treat the third
bird as if it might be brought by another woman. It appears that
the Rabonon were concerned only about a case where more than one
bird left a group and one of them might truly be brought. But in
the case of group seven in the third porach v'chozar, only one
bird leaves group seven, and there is no chance it will be
brought. [Diagram 27]
If a bird flew from a group that must be
left to die (because the entire group is disqualified), all those
in the group into which the bird flew must be left to die.
Example of the Case of the Mishna
After the first porach v'chozar all the birds in groups one and
two are disqualified. Then a bird moved from group one to group
two to group three and so on as in the first porach v'chozar.
The disqualified bird that left group two might have
remained in group three (and the bird that moved from group three
to group four might be a different bird) or it might have
continued moving from group to group and ended in groups four,
five, six, or seven.
None of the birds of any group may be brought.
Each bird in each group might be the disqualified bird
that originated in group one or two.
The Mishna here is clarifying why, in the cases of the
second and third porach v'chozar, no birds flew from groups one
through four after those groups were completely disqualified.
Text © 1997
Rabbi Menachem Moshe Oppen and Project Genesis, Inc.
Feedback is appreciated! It can be sent to: firstname.lastname@example.org.
Where Are You?
Rabbi Mordechai Kamenetzky - 5756
Shlomo Katz - 5759
Human Separation and Value
Rabbi Aron Tendler - 5762
More than One G-d?
Rabbi Yaakov Menken - 5761
Knowing This World and Using it Well
Rabbi Yisroel Ciner - 5761
Know that you Know Nothing
Shlomo Katz - 5755
Which Came First?
Shlomo Katz - 5774
Itís All About Redemption Part I
Rabbi Aron Tendler - 5766
Rabbi Label Lam - 5767
Shlomo Katz - 5765
Chochmah, Tevunah, and Daat
Shlomo Katz - 5769
The Nature of Human Behavior
Rabbi Pinchas Winston - 5776
Fonzie & the Happy Days of Rest
Jon Erlbaum - 0
Rabbi Frand on Parshas Bereshis
Rabbi Yissocher Frand - 5770
To Be An Example
Rabbi Berel Wein - 5776